skinners_box | Facility-wide HMD post

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concrit post

Facility-wide HMD post

Feel free to leave comments in regards to . . . . anything. Concrit that needs to be forwarded to other players, concrit for the mods, concrit on the game, concrit on the Doctor (since that is practically another character). Everything is welcome, blatant flaming will be used to roast marshmallows and make s'mores.

Anon is allowed, IP logging is off.

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I've been waiting a few days to post this. It's come to my attention lately that Hiruzen is kind of running a muck.

He's a rather knowledgeable fellow who is privy to many of Konoha's secrets. So, it concerns me that he would go around telling anyone about Itachi's real alliances. Especially because saying so would undoubtedly cause people to question why and may inadvertently lead to spilling the secret about annihilating the Uchiha Clan.

Also, I think Hiruzen would understand that even in a situation such as the facility, it is not good to trust enemies from his home world. Especially slippery S-Class missing-nin.

His personality, I think, could use some work to. But, I also understand that this is a new muse. As long as you keep him as the perverted old-timer that he is, you should be fine. (Remember, it's canon that his perv exceeds even Jiraiya's.)

I find it very unconvincing to take the man with such a wretched history and no apparent ability to create amorous bonds to be so… obsessed with looking for a replacement. I think that has been what has gotten to me the most of this interpretation since to anyone who has ever played a psychologically abused and emotionally unstable character would know that a serious bond like considering having an interest in someone with obsessive tendencies is a bit difficult to create with them. To show what I mean, I suppose a little bit of explaining is in order. Kazuya is an incredibly traumatized individual. He was thrown off a cliff by his own father at the age of five because his father thought he was weak. Weak, that’s a keyword when it comes to explaining the psychology of Kazuya in my opinion. Why? Because in the Video Game, Kazuya makes sure that every action he takes from then on is to prove he’s a stronger person than his father. His personal vendetta, and perhaps the reason why he’s so easily frustrated when it comes to confrontations, is mostly in part by that situation. He’s dangerous, he’s rude, but that’s what happens when a father tries to kill his son. The anger and confrontational behavior is there, but Kazuya knows better than to be rash all the time.

Sometimes, I find that Kazuya is being far too confrontational with silly things. He believes strongly in revenge, he’s egotistical, but he’s not just a brainless brute. He’s got intelligence in him and most of the time, I have seen responses where it’s like he literally tries to get under a character’s skin with the saddest excuses. Kazuya is not innocent, he doesn’t consider himself at the level of others. There is a big wall he believes that separate him from the rest. He’s strong. He doesn’t care about useless things like someone saying something or getting something wrong knowledge based. Half the time, he’s just talking to talk with no apparent direction. Off topics in his replies are very common. It’s like he’s not doing it to prove a point, it’s more like being an annoyance by that point. Kazuya doesn’t necessarily picks on people’s patience to start a fight, he’s rude but that doesn’t mean he’ll keep bothering and bothering. He’s an angry guy and the player understands that portion. That’s why confrontations start. He annoys another character and then a fight comes out, that would be natural. But not literally picking on their patience to start something. I think that portion needs some work, his all together social-ness.

Then, you get the relationship the muse is trying to gain with one of the female ninja’s.This is where I get to the part I don’t understand.

With random strangers, he’s quick to get into arguments. He’s quick to prove people wrong. I understand that, it’s natural. He likes to prove himself because, that’s what he does. Like when he challenged his father to a tournament and what not, but why is it that when a girl is mentioned, he softens up? Sure, love softens you up but I don’t see how that really works in this situation. He’s sick and twisted, he wants to take over the world. He doesn’t care about anyone other than himself and you can see it with the way he kills people and how he treats them. He’s a firm believer of revenge and he’ll do literally anything to get more power. Why is it he’s obsessing over a random girl when he’s got fights and confrontations left and right in the facility? In game, he focuses his attention more on fighting than anything else.

I think the player once mentioned the fact that the girl he was obsessing over was very much like his wife. Well, I find that a very poor excuse.

Kazuya lost his wife and his son. A son in which through his own twisted way, he tried (in the players opinion) to protect. Yes, he fought him a few times but he fought him to extract the devil gene inside of his son. Why? So that he could be stronger, so that he could spare his son? Perhaps. But then again, once Kazuya extracted the gene, he fought his son and laughed about it like a maniac afterwards. So even if he did care for his son, I doubt that a bond was ever made since you don‘t beat your own son, especially if he loved him as much as this muse says he did. This can also go back to the fact his own father threw him off a cliff and he’s just messed up, but that’s all give-and-take. The point is, there are various ways to back up the fact that Kazuya does not, in any way, ever show his ability to make bonds or obsess himself over something as fickle as romantics.

If he ever did love his wife, I assume that by his fail-bond with his son, his devotion was to her and to her alone. It’s hard for me to take a person like Kazuya with a wife and so much troubles with his family and stuff to readily want a bond with another women, or anyone in general. I don’t think it makes much sense, considering the obsession just started out of the blue, really.

I've held my tongue long enough, waiting to see if this cast would settle in, but it's been over a month and things have not changed. If anything, they've slipped further into OOC.

Major points:

1. Lady. Lady is a demon hunter, who states several times that she wants to eliminate all demons. The only time Vergil even says something to her, it's to say 'That's what you think? You foolish girl.' She hates demons, frequently stating that a demon knows nothing about family. She specifically states that there is one exception, one demon with compassion, and that is Dante. She is seen to cry over the death of her father, despite the fact that he is very evil, and despite her past is able to express emotions (other than being pissed off and snarky) and even give her trust to Dante after seeing his compassion.

So why is she suddenly obsessed with Vergil, and defending him from Dante? I cannot figure this out. He's a cold blooded, compassionless killer that is also a demon. There is nothing there for her to bond with or even like. Why is she checking on his fever and getting him a blanket? This demon helped her father open a portal to hell, with the intent of releasing chaos across the human world. Isn't that worthy of a bit of a grudge? Or even a courtship that ran longer then a month? Her dating any demon without serious build up and development is OOC, and picking Vergil is just insane.

2. Vergil. Wibblestilskins? Dick in a meat grinder? Vergil is Dante's complete opposite. He has poise, dignity, intelligence. His demeanor is icy cold, with a sense of humor that never breaks his facade. Sarcastic and dismissive without letting emotion take hold, unless he's in the heat of battle with the brother that he both despises and obsesses over. He is not the type to lower himself to crass terms or being rude, particularly in situations where his emotions have not come into play. With his brother, almost playful banter is the norm, but for the rest of the world, they can go rot. Particularly all of these short lived mortals how have no idea what true power is.

And, by the way, that includes Lady. He walks past her, huddled in a corner, in canon and doesn't even bother to glance at her. That should be a strong indicator of his feelings toward a young, naive human girl.

3. Dante. Ball up, man! He was doing so damn well, with that 'I don't give a damn' attitude and hitting on anything that was female and had a pulse. The occasional hero, when the situation was right, and it got him the attention of some hot girl. Even now, with his supposed girlfriend, he'll hit on anything. But he's gone soft. He is bravado in it's purest form, and a total dork at the most inopportune moments. He should be angry at the bullshit that's going on, not huddling in a corner just because it's his family. He tried to gut Vergil before, he can handle getting in his brother's face for a bit of quality yelling time. And he's blown Lady off several times in canon. No, he wouldn't get in her face the way he does with Vergil, but complimenting her ass or suggesting she's coming on to him to distract/mis-direct would be perfectly reasonable responses. He adores his mother, but he hasn't seen her in 13 years and has had to live on his own. Adore her, absolutely, but he doesn't 'need' her. He's a big boy now, and she has a lot of work to do to get back in the good graces of both of her sons.

4. Eva. She's practically an OC, since her canon is spotty at best. Her personality seems to be accurate, and her way of looking at Dante and Vergil seems fine, considering she last knew them at six years old. Her voice is consistent, which is nice considering that there is so little to work on with her. But the favoritism displayed toward Vergil and Lady is blatant and ridiculous. This appears to be a case of the muns all knowing each other, but Vergil is a hard ass demon that tried to open a portal to hell. Why is he the coddled, golden child while Dante is in trouble whenever he puts a toe out of line? It's a legitimate question.

This entire thing is threatening to slide off into AU land.

Having read the crit, I understand the issue and will work on fixing it, but the problem itself lies in the fact that so far there has been little interaction between Dante and Eva in general, and that Vergil has made much more of an effort to actually interact with his mother. Most of Eva's attention in that regard is because she genuinely is hurt at his (completely in-character, in my opinion) rejection of her; it's her, trying to reach out and constantly being shut down. In Dante's case, there was an initial rejection, but then he embraced her wholly, pretty much-- so she doesn't NEED to chase him down and find out why it is he hates her, as it is in Vergil's case. You have to understand that from Eva's point of view, she came from a point where both boys pretty much adored their mother, into a world where one of them hated her. Of course she's going to wonder why, and try to make amends however she can. It's not a matter of favoritism, it's a matter of wanting to get to the root of things, and by extension, back to where her sons loved her. The fact that she hasn't yet experienced what makes them both so wary and so hurt is a complication that makes it hard for her to actually know what to do or say, but that Dante seems to be happy to see her means that little bit isn't worrying her.

As for 'favoritism towards Vergil and Lady', that, too, is mostly a matter of 'who does she interact with most?'. There has been a tentative plan between the muns to do some minor plots so that Eva can meet Temari and spend more time with her youngest, but the current events and experiment make that difficult to do just yet. I'd like to ask my crit-er (critter? I have no clue of the proper word for that ^^;) to give me just a bit more time to establish this dynamic before passing judgement on it. It's only been a week, long as that might seem, and I need a bit longer than that to lay groundwork.

Okay, so. Essay time.

In canon, Vergil and Lady only have... one point of interaction. Mission 13 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjZ7BebZlaY) after Dante's fight with Vergil, Lady interjects, solely on what Arkham tells Lady in mission 11 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eL66zmPjg40). He tells her that he was a possessed by "a devil named Vergil". So relatively speaking, Lady attacks Vergil on a blatant lie, told to her by her father. She believes Vergil, for probably five minutes, that he did force her father into the whole thing -- killing her mother and raising the tower. Though as it's revealed as it's one giant lie, Lady doesn't square off with either twin, they team up against Arkham, with their weapons, after he betrays every last one of them.

Now, in honesty, it doesn't look like Vergil or Dante are truly revealed to be half-human, half-demon to Lady. She doesn't denote that they are and nor is it ever said they are around them. Thus, this proves a few things:

One - Lady shoots Dante in the head after he dangles her over a roof, so this means she's willing to shoot someone, a human, when feel threatened. Because, let's face it, she did feel threatened. I doubt Lady would ever sink to Arkham's level and kill a human, unless, yes, her life depended on it. She might be filled with hatred and revenge, but she's also morally driven.

Two - since they were half-human, this would undoubtedly present some sort of dilemma. Unfortunately, she'd probably would be compelled enough to go after them, even if they were half. But really, it's the first option - she has no absolute way of knowing they are hybrids.

Now, continuing. After Dante's speech, Lady finally sees Dante's humanity (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgDiFmDLpLo&feature=PlayList&p=3ABA45DB1C4D0844&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=50), she also understands the concept that, yes, even some of demonic blood can be human, and humans can be as big as monsters as humans. The whole key of Lady finally surrendering to Dante is his family issue - that is the whole turning point between the two, they have common ground. So by that, she presents him with her weapon, the name of her mother to Dante, to entrust him to go in her place to settle Arkham. She trusts Dante because of HIS family issues, his brother.

After that, Lady and Vergil don't have much interaction, at all. Mission 19 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FmSfmKYXkM), he walks by her, without incident, she sees him, he sees here. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. So by now, Lady understands he's not much of an issue anymore, and likely the same with Vergil.

So in the beginning of

a_facility, Lady remembers him. She does, in fact, scorn him, for the fact he AIDED her father in helping the tower. It's because she did feel that he was tied to the death of her mother, in some fashion. She's bitter about how he had his role, but for her own personal reasons with Dante. Although, because of how he treated Dante, and Dante, to her, is her best friend, she looks down on him. Something along the lings "even willing to stab his own brother for power". It's not until truth week, she sees more to Vergil than that. So, why does she change?

It's mainly because he tells her, up front, she's nothing like her father (http://community.livejournal.com/a_facility/1269542.html?thread=41713958#t41713958). And he finally does show brotherly feelings (http://community.livejournal.com/a_facility/1279566.html?thread=42280270#t42280270) for Dante. In this position, Lady encourages him to absolve any feelings he has for Dante, because she remembers how he shed a tear over his own brother. So by that, she feels compelled to encourage Dante (http://community.livejournal.com/a_facility/1289430.html?thread=42839254#t42839254) and Vergil to make up. At this rate, considering their slapfests, Lady knows very well she can't separate the two, decides to duck out. Only when something happens with the twins, she steps in (http://community.livejournal.com/a_facility/1304021.html?thread=43186645#t43186645) hopes of them making up, and eventually, Dante getting his brother back.

So because of truth week, she sees more to Vergil than she initially thought. His bizarre quest for his birthright isn't for power to destroy, but to protect. Honestly, Lady isn't truly opposed to Vergil or Dante having that power, but she certainly is opposed to gates to Hell, demons coming in and destroying people and places. Slowly, but surely, she warms up to Vergil, after being exasperated that her talks with Dante seem to not have the affect she wants. She basically turns a new leaf to Vergil the same reason she does with Dante: He's showing humanity by his care for family.

By then, she reluctantly agrees to have him join up with her during a zombie hunt, only because, well, her BFF is kind of busy to his own devices. So it seems with Dante, Vergil turns to Lady. And Lady greatly puts up with hit, because she does have strong compassion and understanding for his family issues, and he doesn't nearly drive her up a wall as Dante. Honestly, even in canon, her relationship with Dante is very rocky, so her and Vergil share commonplace traits with how they feel (http://community.livejournal.com/a_facility/1289430.html?thread=42815446#t42815446) about people.

It's by her mutual feelings and compassion, and, well, she's still YOUNG, Lady develops a small crush on him. And because of his situation, she grew slowly protective of him. Had the situation be different with Dante, Lady would act the same. She's more open with Vergil about this because Vergil is a lot like her, in some aspects. They disagree with a few things, but by Vergil assuring her that he can find a way home and won't be killing her, they have an alliance (http://community.livejournal.com/a_facility_log/234132.html). And that alliance is found on getting home, not being stuck, and their concern for Dante.

Honestly, she does have some stupid crush for him, but it's not love, it's that she's denied herself these feelings for a while. There was no need to bond with anyone like that - and, well, if it were on the opposite, she probably would have felt the same for Dante. Since Vergil and her find themselves around each other more? Sure, definitely. But in her mind, even with, well, kissing him, she hasn't quite ventured beyond the point of their relationship of "friendship". Simply, Lady grew with a fear of being hurt and betrayed like with what happened with her parents, so she has for a very, very long time - and still in some cases - rejects relationships. He's just recently earned the title of "friend", and Lady is very, VERY loyal to him and his brother. They are her allies. Her respect for him is founded with his goals and temperament. But because of this game situation and he's there whenever she's about, Vergil is, oddly, at the top of her list of trust. And understandably, after the hardship she's faced, she's very protective of her friends, that includes Vergil.

So because of Dante's relationship with his current CR, Lady's been more critical of him. And canonically speaking, Lady is pretty much a bitch to Dante. She coerces him in the anime to take jobs that he doesn't like by means of betting him. She puts ridiculous bills and debt on him for the jobs she gives him, even as he picked up the job in her name and destroys places. But regardless, she's like that because Lady is a very business minded person, and Dante is not. That infuriates her, quiet a bit. Vergil? A little different. Again. They have similar personalities and aspects.

So while the concerns are valid, I'm terribly afraid that what CR has been developed has been, well, overlooked. Lady is a ruthless and fiery hunter, yes, but to imply that would basically mean she hates Dante and Vergil still, regardless of their heritage and blood line.

I also have my own personal HMD (http://community.livejournal.com/arspaulina/16185.html), IP logging is off, and anonymous is enabled. If anything else is required of me or any further examples, I would be more than happy to oblige. But in the meantime, I feel because of present events, current situations with my canon mates, it is warranted that this is going to happen, especially since I am taking Lady right after Temen-ni-Gru, and her interactions with the boys in canon.

And I hope that suffices!

WHOOPS: Also, in case anyone is curious, I even have a list of links of Lady's current CR (http://theotokos.livejournal.com/101260.html), if anyone would like to see how things developed XD;.

Edited 2009-11-28 00:34 (UTC)

With the complete understanding that the moderators are not overly familiar with this fandom, we are requesting that you do not completely disregard this critique. The relationship between Vergil and Lady was rushed, by all accounts, considering their admitted lack of interaction in canon. Based off of interactions since arrival, it appeared that they were already on a regular speaking basis. The moderators were not aware of all of the canon points between the two, or the lack thereof, and did not know that this was a concern until it was brought up with canon references.

It's understandable if mods are not familiar with canon, however, my only concern is that I do wish that this would be personally brought up in my HMD, so that I, myself, may hash this without with anyone who has concern for my characterization.

I will, however, take this critique into consideration, but I will respectfully disagree with the term "rushed". Considering the relationship with his twin brother, the same could be said of Dante and her. In later terms of canon, she will completely trust Dante, I feel that it's completely reasonable to be receptive that. Now, perhaps, if she had more interaction with Dante, whom has yet to respond to her, outside of her scolding, it can be shown.

However, I must reiterate Lady's youth. Lady is shown to not only be a fiery, headstrong, and persistent girl, she is also naive, idealistic, and judgmental. In short, Lady is still just a kid. Her relationship with Vergil isn't even transcending onto a physical relationship. She regards him as a friend, nothing more. She doesn't seek out anything physical, only once, and only has brought up those sort of matters for a few reasons:

Edited 2009-11-28 01:12 (UTC)

Firstly, again, Lady has not had a relationship with anyone, this open, for a while. There's bound to be confusion and hesitation on her part, because, to be blunt, she's lacking her mother, who she was so blatantly close to in canon, to usher her along. So Lady's left on the fence and fritz.

Secondly, she trusts him, because he's told her things (like his brotherly problems) with him. Family problems is something she has common ground with. While she'll discuss it with him, interaction beyond that is slow, at best. Since he hasn't exactly acted out to harm her or anyone, this also adds to the fact she confides in him.

She's shut herself out, and because she's so fresh out of canon, by accepting her new name and Dante in, metaphorically speaking, she's learning to live again, and she's slowly moving on from her mother and father's deaths. She, herself, knows she has second-guess Dante, and because of him, she does re-evaluate people now, that includes his brother. So I don't see why she wouldn't look at Vergil differently, the same as Dante.

So, in all honesty, it's not like the two officially hooked up for anything. This has been transpiring for over a month, and considering both characters are young and have restricted themselves, yes, confusion abound. But the process and level of how it has happened hasn't been rushed, in the least. It's mostly curiosity of a kid, nothing more, and by the looks of things, it doesn't look like they'll be moving onto anything physical (romantically) for a while.

Edited 2009-11-28 01:12 (UTC)

Considering her repeated declarations in game that she trusts only two people, being Vergil and Red Hood, I would not consider her to be receptive to trusting others. Based entirely off of game interaction, it appeared that she and Vergil had some sort of history, while it's turning out that there really was none.

Rushed seems an appropriate term when a situation goes from enemies that barely know each other to attraction and complete loyalty/trust within a month, particularly considering her occupation and his species.

Fair point, but again, her history with Vergil is on the lie Arkham told her, nothing more. There's nothing else beyond that, and she has accused him (ever so passive-aggressively) of being tied to her mother's death. That is all she cared mostly about.

I already explained that Lady doesn't care what his lineage is, it's pretty much obvious she doesn't; if that were the case, she'd be kicking Dante to the curb, too.

Which reinforces the point that he is a stranger/enemy she barely knows. What she does know is that he has tried to open a gate to hell, and that he has tried to kill his own brother.

In regards to not caring about his lineage, that seems contradictory to her position as a demon hunter that has declared that she still wants to eliminate all demons. Dante is a lone exception to this rule, and his show of compassion would not carry over to Vergil.

I am, once more, going to have to politely disagree, and I feel completely backed into a corner. In which she has gotten to know better, in this game. I am really having a hard time seeing the point you're trying to make, after I've provided cutscenes and lists of links to threads to prove otherwise. He has already said even to her that it's birthright, that his father's power is to protect Dante.

And no, in the end of the game, she says in her narrative piece (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xamf8_xQ6Aw), that she understands there are demons who are as human as HE is. If this is the case, then she wouldn't take in Trish in the later future. So I kind of don't understand what you're trying to get at. The only time Lady ever jumps the gun in game is when Arkham lies to her, her feelings and emotions are riled up. Lady's not an idiot, she's not going to go in guns ablazing, that would certainly insure her death. And if Vergil was that much of a danger, I do believe he would have killed her by now for the sake of her being her father's daughter.

The IC-ness of this interaction is still considered questionable. No evidence has given sufficient backing for a relationship as serious as this one (Lady breathing down the neck of people looking funny at Vergil is a serious relationship, official or not) without significant buildup or development. With the appropriate development, it has the potential to be absolutely fascinating, but it has skipped directly to the closest of friends with no solid foundation. The point is not that the relationship itself is impossible. The point is that it was not been developed properly. Half of the IC concerns stem from Vergil's interest in Lady, considering the information available on that character.

Alright, I honestly don't... want to argue this over the moderator's journal. I will say this: The reason why I am so very strong in my stance, is because, honestly, my HMD has been ignored. If anyone was concerned about what was going on with my character, I would sincerely and utterly appreciate it if a moderator would kindly direct them towards where my character can be given concrit.

With this concrit, I have not been given suggestions on how to change things between the two of them, so I'm kind of left on the fence over here. I mean this in the nicest way possible... please contact me. I have given my stance and evidence to back this up. I will take the concrit into consideration, but I still disagree with it.

Neither side has given us suggestions to improve, and it rather seems like conflict of interest. I'm not looking to start a fight, here, I would be pleased to justify my characterization with Lady and her CR. So I don't know what to say here, other than settle it with me either e-mail, IM, or my HMD.

I'm sorry, guys, but this is... making me extremely uncomfortable. Not because of the characterization, the fact I have to sit here back and forth and do this, when I have a place off-sight to talk about my characterization.

Edited 2009-11-28 02:53 (UTC)

There’s a lot of things that bother me from what has been going on for several weeks now and the fact nothing is getting fixed annoys me. It’s turning into a big AU and it’s losing it’s class. Because I’ve seen the Dante for months here, I can pretty much saw that their characterization is all right, but there’s been a few changes, mostly in his care-free attitude. Most of the way he reacts to his family members suprises me, he’s too passive.

For a person who lived her life cursing all demons, I find it very hard to believe that somehow, within a span of merely several weeks, Lady could all of a sudden grow an obsession for Vergil. Clearly, the two haven’t exactly become ‘official’ in the game as it has been pointed out but Lady acts like his wife. She lectures away at a sibling who, naturally as is canon, annoys his brother. Vergil is insane in the way Vergil is, he loves and hates his brother and naturally, he will always find an excuse to dislike Dante. They will fight, they will hug, then they will fight again. That’s their canon relationship. The fact that Lady not only blames Dante of not caring about his siblings health and pointing the finger at him that he is heartless crosses the line in my opinion.

Firstly, the sibling’s brawl is none of her business despite what the muse in the game she says. Yes, her father had some work with Vergil and she got stabbed to spill her blood as a sacrifice, but that doesn’t make her the middle of everything. In the back of everyone’s mind, she’s just a human who had an ancestor in the wrong place at the wrong time. Can she go to hell? No. Can she defeat a demon? No. Dante saved her several times, he even beat her in a fight and told her himself that this was their fight. He’d save the world for her. And what did Lady do? She agreed, she stopped fighting. She understood. The main ordeal is between Dante and Vergil, the fact she’s so close to her worst enemy is OOC on so many levels.

Her father, the only male figure in her life murdered his own wife. Her skew on men and relationships should naturally be off. She’s been trying to find him and kill him for years. She makes it a point to hate all demons. In a conversation in the video game, Dante confronts her about it, telling her that not all demons were the same, she replies by telling him all demons are the same, that they’re all evil. That’s the point of the relationship between Dante and Lady, Dante was the exception to the perspective that Lady had. She shouldn’t be against him as the Lady here in this game has been, but for him. She saw Vergil, she saw Vergil working with her father, she saw him open a gate to hell. How is it that she’s throwing Dante off and mother-hening Vergil, the guy she tried to kill and represents a typical demon in her immediate logic? Is he good? Lady doesn’t know that. In the game, she didn’t know the relationship between Dante and his brother until she caught Dante crying. You could have said that Lady was curious to know why Dante adored his brother so much and grown from there, but the fact that not only two days in they were talking like old friend’s and flirting was highly OOC on both parts. She should have been freaked out. For almost a month now, their ‘relationship’ has escalated and it’s not getting any better. Vergil should have been annoyed. With Lady, fascination of the abomination has it’s limits. She knows what happens to people that get too interested In the affair’s of demons. Look at her father for reference. I don’t care how much she can guess or what she thinks about Dante and Vergil, she’s still weary and alert. Yeah, they saved the words a few days ago but that won’t change something she’s had stuck in her all that time. It just doesn’t make sense.

And Vergil, the apple of Lady’s eye apparently, ever since when did Vergil get a fouler mouth than Dante? The brother’s are complete opposites. In the video game, he was always so painfully polite. Of course, it’s understandable that perhaps Vergil around Dante get’s a little lose wind around Dante but even so, telling other people rude sexual comments or anything vulgar of the like is crossing the threshold. That’s Dante’s job. He’s the douche of the family. Vergil doesn’t meddle with humans because they’re just not important. He brought a tower in the middle of a city. He doesn’t care about human lives. He tried to kill his comrade. He’s so nice it burns and he’s so crazy it’s scary. His interactions with Dante are spectacular. They somehow always manage to make me laugh. They fight, they make up, Dante flails a little but, cusses a storm, and everything is better. You really have that down and perfect. However, his interactions with Lady just strike me as odd.

Trusting Lady over Dante, trusting her with plans? The fact that Lady so much as agreed to wanting to open a hell gate with Dante is incredibly OOC. Her father did it, ever since when did she follow in his footsteps? Again, there’s some serious issues with Lady’s characterization. Back to Vergil, if Vergil had taken Lady under his wing in order to use her for his benefit, I would have understood that. That’s what he does. He could have used the mentality “Like father, like daughter” to get away with it but the fact he’s grown an attraction, or an interest beyond usefulness with Lady is just mind blowing. How did it happen? Ever since when did Vergil fall for the usual flirtatious banter normal people do? As amusing as their conversations were, they would have worked if they had taken their time to get to the point where their prescience wouldn’t annoy each other. All of a sudden, these two were like close friend’s without even going through the ‘let’s make peace and be friend’s’ step. I don’t know, it’s just like staring at an AU or something.

I was actually excited to see an Eva get app’d because of the two brother’s but I’m starting to wonder if there’s just a big clique going on. What’s up with the favoritism? Why don’t I see Dante thrown into the mix, why is he getting pushed out? In fact, Dante needs to stop being so complacent and grow a pair to get back at his regular behavior. He shouldn’t be allowing any of that. And Eva, considering Dante seems to be having issues with accepting himself as worthy to be before his mother, shouldn’t she be trying to console him? He’s a bit soft on his front against Lady and Vergil but when it comes to the issues of his mother’s death, I can see why he would feel unworthy, weak and responsible. It adds to that messed up relationship. But why is it lagging? What’s with the whole favoritism? I call it favoritism because that’s what I’m seeing. She’s scolding her youngest son half the time and trusting the judgment of Lady, who as far as anyone is concerned, once more proves to have some sort of relationship with someone at the speed of lightning.

Maybe it’s because the muns all know each other, maybe people got excited. I don’t know. For a months worth, things haven’t been very impressive.

While I can't speak on behalf of my canon mates to an extent, it's really out of my hands if Dante isn't interacting much with Lady. I've already cited in game elements, but I'll be glad to rehash the stuff here.

Since Dante has been busying himself with other previous CR - which is understandable - Dante has skipped over when Lady tries address him, and he only addresses her, when, in fact, she seems to be more of the agitator. The fact remain is, no, Lady and Vergil are NOT plotting to release Temen-ni-Gru. In the log, Vergil suggests that they, all three of them, can use their blood to open a portal back home. TNG's seal is complied of other seals, other gates. The seven sins in canon, as well as, to name the few memorable guardians, Beowulf, Nevan, Leviathan, Greyon, Agni, and Ruda. Since TNG has been sealed, that means Vergil would have to work all the way around the seven sins, since Sparda has taken their names, according to canon.

A blood sacrifice by the three of them wouldn't open TNG. He has told and reassured Lady that this would not happen, and Lady confides in that fact, again, he was telling her of his experiences with Arkham. The manga and canon are also obscure in the fact, that Kalina Ann's death could have been the first thing to open TNG, this is not covered. Lady is only going along with this, because she wants to get home. She's obsessed with killing demons and her home. As I cited above, Lady and Vergil have little to no interaction, and the clash they had was based on a lie. He passes her, without a regard in the world.

And as you say, anon, Lady's strongest male influence in her life was Arkham, so her view of men is skewed? This is true, but you have to realize, this also implies Lady's age and her skewered view leaves her open to this again. Especially if she and Vergil share common goals and aspect. This is like pretty much implying she hates men. Sure, men are scorn for her time, to time, but she's aware that she's second-guess a lot, because of Dante. It's not out of the question for her to do this Vergil.

Lady is fervently loyal to Dante, and Vergil, since he hasn't even BEGIN to act out on her, and given her tidbits of information on her father's plans and the like, that includes him. He's been there more than Dante, she's put up with him more due to his honesty- again, truth week. Vergil's goals and his relationship are flawed, but they hardly make him an evil person, even she knows this. He's pointed out that she is nothing like her father, and Arkham has said in canon that she is "just like her mother". Just because she has some qualities of Arkham, doesn't make her exactly like her father. If that were the case, Vergil would have long ago killed her, because of her relation to Arkham, because she is the offspring of the man who screwed him out of a birth right. If it weren't for Lady, the tower's seal wouldn't have been broken.

Can Lady play favorites? Not going to rule it out, she's a pretty moody character. Just look at how she treats Dante in canon. But just because we know each other, doesn't make it any different.

I'd like to stress, once more, please consult my HMD.

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ConCrit for Sarutobi Hiruzen

Kazuya Mishima

Kazuya Mishima [CONT.]

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One of many?

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done!

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Cont.

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